Punishment as Justice Demands

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Punishment as Justice Demands

Post by Guest_Phoenix94305 on Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:12 am

Hiya all,

Awhile back, there was a post concerning the punishment allotted to various infractions of the rules. This is sort of a note to everyone on in the community about the fairness of punishment both on the forum and Y-EP. There is a page with seems to prescribe specific punishment for specific infractions of the rules. I myself never subscribed myself to following a purported rulebook on punishment. Indeed, that "manual" was intended to create a guideline for punishment for rule infractions. Buy, as with most GUIDELINES, there is flexibility in the punishment and the reaction to the ill deed.

I know this system, if we follow it, is flawed and harmful. The point of creating "suggested" punishments for certain violations of the rules was to add a level of consistency to our rule enforcement. But the enforcement should always consider what is right and what the demands of justice are. There can be no universal formula that is fair; likewise, a prescribed punishment disentangled from the facts of the case suggest that more thought needs to go into this park.

I will be making new tutorial levels soon, and I hope other players will teach skills crucial to playing on here.

If you have questions, email my at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].

-Phoe
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Re: Punishment as Justice Demands

Post by Guest_Phoenix94305 on Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:15 am

The point here is that there cannot be a single set of rules and reactions to the world. Mods and mentors need to be flexible in how they behave. There is no universal right way of behaving. Nor is there a particular prescribed way for being a better person.
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Re: Punishment as Justice Demands

Post by Guest_Phoenix94305 on Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:19 am

This is mostly a message to the mentors and mods on here. Be wise, and be fair. Consider various viewpoints, and weigh them with thought. Do not believe that there can exist a rule system that is perfect, that can proscribe particular courses of action.
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Re: Punishment as Justice Demands

Post by Xakaze on Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:57 pm

I suggest that you move this topc to mod/mentor forum if only them are concerned with it ^^.

About the Rules - I mean the official ones -, I've never considered them something we have to follow strictly, even if it helps in most cases to help taking a decision. When I have a different opinion from that book - or when the case I'm looking a rule for is not mentioned - I simply make a topic and ask mods - yes, mods only in the first place because I consider that mentors haven't to be bothered with rules/punishments if it's not necessary.

Detailing those side cases, why not, impossible to disagree with the step ^^. But please not here.

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Re: Punishment as Justice Demands

Post by Nabbit on Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:49 pm

I see your point... every case is unique so the rules can't perfectly fit every case regarding how fair the punishment may be. But how everyone would be getting the same punishment for the same crime is fair in a way. Maybe not for the particular person's case, but for any spectators looking on they could say, "Oh I remember little Johnny getting the same penalty as that," instead of "Why did he get a more severe/weaker punishment than Johnny did?" It eliminates bias and favoritism if it's followed strictly. Also, it can make decision making faster.

But I see your point, and I can see that it would be flawed. But I also don't think opening up a thread and sitting around on a case for 5 days without doing anything is good either, nor is judging people based on what they have done in the past I guess. I don't know. Y u confuzzle me leik dis Nix?
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Re: Punishment as Justice Demands

Post by Steinwayartist on Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:10 pm

I feel as if having those punishment guidelines gave us some form of comfort, like, we would be able to estimate a reasonable punishment without others thinking we are being crazy harsh. The rule guidelines does eliminate bias, and favoritism, but if everyones agrees with your biased opinion, would it still be biased if unanimously we agreed on something? The rule guidelines is also a good reference, like, if someone gets a one day ban for spam, but they think a two day ban since he spammed a lot, they should be allowed to overrule the rule guidelines to a certain extension.  
My two cents. Peace and Love

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Re: Punishment as Justice Demands

Post by Ozone Layer on Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:20 pm

Okay, so I am not a mentor/mod, but here's what I think:

Most of you are probably smart enough to make fairly important decisions if you are a mentor/mod, so go with you instinct.

If someone is getting permanently banned, that's when you should consult someone else just for another person's opinion.

And BTW, when you are banned (this was in effect when I was banned), it takes to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Now, it doesn't seem to work anymore. What happened? I can tell that it probably used to be a working link, because the icon for the yck website is a plane, and it shows a plane on the banned page. It also says "Error: NOT_FOUND".

Whether it works or not, the person banned should be able to (1) know why he/she was banned, (2) know how long he/she will be banned, and (3) be provided a link if it is necessary to file a complaint (such as in the ban appeals section of the forum).
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Re: Punishment as Justice Demands

Post by princevladlin on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:57 am

I agree that having a range of days for a guideline could be a better idea.

I was thinking about implementing more specifc ban guidelines for the forum that would look something like this:

i.e. Spamming
1st offense - 0-3 day ban with warning and link to rules
1st offense after warning - 1-5 day ban
2nd - 7-15 day ban
3rd 30+ day ban
4th - permaban

A small spam doesn't necessarily count as an offense (triple post or two word post for example). Post is just deleted / sent to basket  and user notified. Multiple small offenses = big offense.

Big offenses include things like spam creating 5 new threads for the same subject, which would result in a ban even with no prior warning.

To prevent permabans, small offenses over a long time period cannot result in a permaban.

Interested to get some input on whether the users here like the range idea.

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Re: Punishment as Justice Demands

Post by exitpathisveryfun123 on Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:19 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
And BTW, when you are banned (this was in effect when I was banned), it takes to [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Now, it doesn't seem to work anymore. What happened? I can tell that it probably used to be a working link, because the icon for the yck website is a plane, and it shows a plane on the banned page. It also says "Error: NOT_FOUND".
idk hacked the site so he could get on. jk, lol.
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Re: Punishment as Justice Demands

Post by sohdbrimks on Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:00 am

Rules for forum

I think the Custom Levels subforum should be visible without logging in so banned people can still have access to levels.
This would let us be more harsh with bans; for example, if someone spams a thread we could just ban them for a month without affecting their yck experience since they could still look at customs

Rules for yck

I think there are two categories in this case:

1) abuse of auth: putting impossible levels, chosing level nobody wants and putting time 1, etc. I think the best punishment in these cases is just to remove auth indefinitely

2) acting like an asshole: I think the best "punishment" here is just to ignore them. In  extreme cases, like making fun of new players and things like that, then a 1 week ban might be more apropriate
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Re: Punishment as Justice Demands

Post by AngelOfOreos on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:12 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:1) abuse of auth: putting impossible levels, chosing level nobody wants and putting time 1, etc. I think the best punishment in these cases is just to remove auth indefinitely
This wouldn't be bad... but some people would be new to this. At least one warning is best before an indefinite removal of auth.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:2) acting like an asshole: I think the best "punishment" here is just to ignore them. In  extreme cases, like making fun of new players and things like that, then a 1 week ban might be more apropriate
Ooooh the silent treatment. This would be a good one to add to our rules haha Razz

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